Autor Tema: Cime motivisati psa?  (Pročitano 4024 puta)

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Van mreže BlackKan

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Cime motivisati psa?
« poslato: 23 Maj, 2013, 14:44:00 »
Obuka i uopste ucenja pasa nekom prinudnom metodom su kao sto smo vec spominjali davno prevazidjene i dokazano loseg ucinka. U velikom broju slucajeva su na granici okrutnosti i imaju ne bas potpun ili kontra efekat.

Psi su u stanju da izvedu niz slozenih radnji,jer znaju da za to dobijaju odredjeni stimulans,tj.nagradu. Isto tako u slucaju loseg ponasanja umesto tradicionalne kazne,treba ih samo lisiti ocekivane nagrade.

Treba znati da postoji i razlika izmedju nagrade i motivacije. Nagrada je nesto sto sleduje nakon neke uspesno izvrsene radnje, a motivacija je ono sto psa pokrece da zazeli nesto da napravi i u direktnoj je vezi sa njihovim nagonom.

Kao  osnovno sredsto motivacije je naravno hrana ali moze da posluze i razne igracke,koje su psu zanimljive.

Cime vi nagradjujete/motivisete vaseg psa i koliko vam je to pomoglo u obuci?

Van mreže Lobo

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Odg: Cime motivisati psa?
« Odgovor #1 poslato: 23 Maj, 2013, 17:20:46 »
hrenovke rulz  sm to
nema sto nece napraviti, stupanj motivacije se proporcionalno povecava sa povecanjem hrenovke  :D

Van mreže BlackKan

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Odg: Cime motivisati psa?
« Odgovor #2 poslato: 23 Maj, 2013, 19:10:00 »
u sirinu ili duzinu :D

Van mreže Lobo

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Odg: Cime motivisati psa?
« Odgovor #3 poslato: 23 Maj, 2013, 20:35:06 »
bilo kako, samo da je kolicina  :D

Van mreže stryker

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    • jassy
Odg: Cime motivisati psa?
« Odgovor #4 poslato: 24 Maj, 2013, 11:27:19 »
na moje pse ponekad mi se cini da kao motivacija vise deluje pohvala glasom i fizicka pohvala nego hrana mislim da je to obicno tako kada su zenke u pitanju jer su one malo privrzenije vlasniku

Van mreže BlackKan

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Odg: Cime motivisati psa?
« Odgovor #5 poslato: 25 Maj, 2013, 13:24:12 »
evo za Balta ekstra motivacije  :D


Van mreže Emne

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Odg: Cime motivisati psa?
« Odgovor #6 poslato: 25 Maj, 2013, 15:21:03 »
Salama i raznorazni suhomesnati proizvodi.
Ali skontala sam da cak i bolje radi na pohvalu i ceskanje.  sm zelenko
Kad odradi celu vezbu sav je ponosan na pohvalu i onda se izvali u fazonu "Rub my belly"  sm zelenko

Van mreže Lobo

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Odg: Cime motivisati psa?
« Odgovor #7 poslato: 26 Maj, 2013, 12:05:01 »
evo za Balta ekstra motivacije  :D




samo ako su prave, nanjusi blef na kilometar  :D

Van mreže Kaća

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Odg: Cime motivisati psa?
« Odgovor #8 poslato: 26 Maj, 2013, 12:07:52 »
Citat
evo za Balta ekstra motivacije 

I za Balta i za Bolta  :D
Nisu loša vremena, nego čovek.

Van mreže Lobo

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Odg: Cime motivisati psa?
« Odgovor #9 poslato: 26 Maj, 2013, 23:22:48 »
Citat
evo za Balta ekstra motivacije 

I za Balta i za Bolta  :D

imaju jos nesto slicno osim imena  :D

Van mreže Kaća

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Odg: Cime motivisati psa?
« Odgovor #10 poslato: 27 Maj, 2013, 09:36:38 »
izgleda  :rofl:
Nisu loša vremena, nego čovek.

Van mreže AA

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Odg: Cime motivisati psa?
« Odgovor #11 poslato: 29 Jun, 2013, 10:27:19 »
veoma koristan clanak o motivaciji koji opisuje redovne greske vlasnika kada nesto uce pse, i objasnjava razloge zasto izostaju zeljeni rezultati. toliko je rasireno da sam se toga nagledala i po parkovima, skolicama i po takmicenjima.
na engleskom je, al ko ne razume, mislim da ce mu i translator pomoci

What is a Motivator?

A motivator is something we want; most of us can answer that pretty easily.  In the world of competition dogs, however, I often see something that is really confusing to me.  I routinely encounter people who are using rewards that their dog does not want, in order to reward behaviors that they DO want.

It looks like this:

Dog has just done a fabulous recall to her handler – fast and straight.  As a reward, the trainer whips out a toy and starts to play with the dog.  So far so good, except for one detail; the dog walks away because she does not want the toy.    The owner starts playfully hitting the dog on the butt with the toy and pulling on her hair.  The dog scurries around to face the trainer but still makes no effort to engage; she continues to reject the toy.

Refusing a toy is not an option in this trainer’s world so the dog is crated.  When I question this sequence, I am told that the dog must play when the trainer wants to play, and the dog must accept whatever reward is offered, whether or not the dog wants it.

Thirty minutes later, the dog is allowed out of the crate, and the owner is ready with the toy.  The dog emerges from the crate and immediately engages with the toy, frantically thrashing the toy back and forth.  She is rewarded for this by being allowed out to continue with her work.  The trainer chalks this up as a success – the dog is now accepting the toy as a reward for working. 

At the next recall the dog wanders, sniffs and stares at the other dogs as soon as the owner’s back is turned.   The owner returns to the dog for a rousing game of tug (which is accepted) and the dog is then left on a restrained recall instead of a stay – it works.  The dog runs to the owner and accepts the toy when it is offered.

I have seen or heard variations of this training technique more times than I can count.  Here is the human equivalent of that sequence:

I want my son to take out the garbage, and I will motivate him using broccoli as the reward.  I have chosen broccoli because it is good for him, not because he’s ever shown any enthusiasm for it.   

The next time he takes out the garbage, I am going to offer up his reward – a big, steaming bowl of broccoli!  I expect him to accept that broccoli for dessert –whether he has indicated to me that he wants it or not, because broccoli is healthy and over the long run this is in his best interest.

If he chooses not to eat the broccoli, I’ll put him in a quiet room for a short while so he can’t find anything else to do or find anything else to eat that might be more enticing.

My guess is that when I let him out and offer the broccoli again, he’ll take a nice big bite!  Maybe not the first time, but as the weeks or months go by, he’ll figure it out.

Eventually, my hope is that he’ll eat the broccoli when I put it in front of him and I won’t need the quiet room at all. Chances are good I’ll get there too.

Unfortunately, I now risk having a new problem.  My son could stop volunteering to take out the garbage.  If that happens, what should I do?

If you said, “put him back in the room to build his motivation for taking out the garbage”, then you would be correct!  Doing chores looks pretty entertaining compared to the quiet room.

Now I’ve killed two birds with one stone.  I have built his interest in doing chores and he is eating his broccoli.  Possibly most important, I have built his understanding that as a parent, I control his every move, his world, his potential for an interesting life.  In this scenario, I have abdicated responsibility for making the chores interesting.  I have ignored the signs of distress and the light in his eyes when a bowl of ice cream shows up, because I have decided that he must love broccoli, regardless of who he is or how he feels.

In the above scenarios, it is truly difficult to determine what we have – a structure built primarily on reward or one based on punishment.  Since motivation is always considered from the point of view of the subject, we need to interpret their opinions based on what they show us.  When we add deprivation to the system we confuse the issue.

Like people, dogs are individuals.  The more motivators that you have for your dog the better off you will be, since different motivators are ideal for different circumstances, but at the end of the day, it is only a motivator if your dog wants it, and if the handler can make the motivator desirable.  You cannot motivate a dog with a toy if she does not want it or if the handlers lacks the skills to use it correctly.

I would certainly encourage you to develop a wide array of training options, but when making our choices, we have to look at the specific dog/handler team.  What does the dog want?  What is the handler comfortable using?   

If your dog does not like toys, you cannot use them to motivate behavior, unless you punish the dog for rejecting them. When we force a dog to accept a motivator that they do not want, what is really influencing the dog’s behavior, the threat of punishment or the proffered motivator?  Is it really reasonable to call something a motivator if the dog accepts it in order to avoid the alternative?  I’d argue, “no.” 

Yes, deprivation training works but is it a method of training that grows your skills as a trainer?  Why not train with food while you learn to use toys in a motivational fashion, or until you have a dog that wants to play with toys as much as you want to use them?  Take the time to learn the mechanical skills of toy play but in the meantime, let your dog tell you what she wants – and then listen to her opinion.

If your dog likes something – anything! – you can get behavior.  You can maintain behavior.  You can enjoy training and your dog can enjoy being there with you, because you make life interesting and entertaining.  To train this way you’ll have to let your dog take the lead and you’ll have to listen to her opinion about the things that you are doing.  You’ll have to consider why your training is progressing – because your dog wants what you are offering or because she is afraid of the consequences of choosing to leave the motivator on the table?

Give it some thought. 

As far as broccoli, try roasting it at about 425 degrees with a generous amount of olive oil, salt and pepper.  Before serving, throw in a handful of raisins and walnuts.  Yum! 

Van mreže Lobo

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Odg: Cime motivisati psa?
« Odgovor #12 poslato: 29 Jun, 2013, 10:48:15 »
vidio na svoje oci kod sluzbenog psa, totalno nemotiviran na rad za igracku, na hranu radi odlicno, ali vlasnik ne zeli tako raditi.. i onda kaze a jebiga, biti ce dobar kucni ljubimac  :zid2:

Van mreže AA

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Odg: Cime motivisati psa?
« Odgovor #13 poslato: 29 Jun, 2013, 10:51:59 »
da, ima toga jako puno bas kod radnih pasa, sto je posebno porazavajuce jer ocekujes da njegov vodic prvi treba da poznaje nacin kako podici psa.
najteze je pobeci od samog sebe.
pa ja ovom mom kad radimo nikad ne dajem ni jednu drugu lopticu nego tenisku, jer su mu one najnapetije, i tacno se vidi razlika u zelji za radom, i kod njega koji je lud za lopticama i uvezban kad ga nagradjujem teniskom ili nekom drugom...a ne kad tek trebas psa da ucis necemu

Van mreže Lobo

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Odg: Cime motivisati psa?
« Odgovor #14 poslato: 29 Jun, 2013, 11:05:41 »